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So...is this living or dead?

Hi all! Just found this page on teh intarwebs. It has the full searchable text of Augustine's Confessions.

Sorry about the length of time between posts everyone. I know I held out the schedule as an absolute good, but maybe this just goes to show the depth of human depravity and the impossibility perfection...or at least my laziness. Could go either way.

Anyhow, on to Augustine and the later years of his teenage life!

One quote that fascinated me was the very first few sentences:

I came to Carthage, where a cauldron of illicit loves leapt and boiled about me. I was not yet in love, but I was in love with love, and from the very depth of my need hated myself for not more keenly feeling the need.

This seems like an echo of his statement at the beginning of the Confessions that "our hearts are restless till they rest in Thee" which is pretty much the theme of his entire confessions (or at least as much as I have read). This is made even more explicit a few lines later when he says "I was hungry, all for the want of that spiritual food which is Thyself, my God".

Ah, the stealing of the pears story...  one passage I especially liked in this section:

In VII, "And the evil I have not done, that also I know is by Thy grace: for what might I not have done, seeing that I loved evil solely because it was evil?  I confess that Thou hast forgiven all alike--the sins I committed of my own motion, the sins I would have committed but for Thy grace.  / Would any man, considering his own weakness, dare to attribute his chastity or his innocence to his own powers and so love Thee less--as if he did not need the same mercy as those who return to Thee after sin.  If any man has heard Thy voice and followed it and done none of the things he finds me here recording and confessing, still he must not scorn me: for I am healed by the same doctor who preserved him from falling into sickness, or at least into such grievous sickness.  But let him love Thee even more: seeing me rescued out of such sickness of sin, and himself saved from faling into such sickness of sin, by the one same Saviour."

I like how Augustine places God as the source of everything good that ever is or ever happens.  How little truly good we can do on our own!  Even when we do good we often do it for the wrong reasons.  Quite Calvinist of him too, don't you think Nick?  lol.

Sorry I come so late to the game Tim.  I had forgotten how hard Augustine can be to go through, however glorious his thoughts.

I was really intrigued by the section right at the beginning, where he attempts to sort out the relation of God to His creation and to Augustine himself.  To this day we haven't made much progress and the same questions irk us still.  But part of what I'm impressed with is that Augustine doesn't feel the need settle on an answer.  He tends more towards what I perceive as the Orthodox tradition of mystery.  Being content with the existence of aspects of God and our relation to Him that are beyond knowing.  Though perhaps Augustine doesn't revel in it quite so much as I feel (probably wrongly considering my extremely limited exposure to Orthodox thought) Orthodox Christians do, more I just see him as accepting it.  Tim, you alluded to this tendency of Augustine to ask big questions but not settle on answers on the particular question of the origin of the soul, and I think the whole book is riddled with it.

The argument about the sinful nature of man made by Augustine in his consideration of infants (VII) really struck me.  What he says rings true-- we may pardon infants because they cannot know any better, but what they do is wrong and exhibits their nature, one that is already tainted by evil.

In XIII, I find myself wondering why Augustine cares so much for the "useful"? (This is when he speaks of how he did wrong in loving the empty studies of Aeneas and the story of Troy, and in hating the more useful learning of how to read and write.)  For I get the sense that he not only believes he did wrong by loving the friendship of this world and the  things that would get him this friendship, but also that he did wrong by not loving his earlier studies of how to read and write.  Why?  Is it simply because this learning can be used as in the present case, for the glory of God?  Because things which are "useful" which are tools, are not evil in and of themselves, while the vain stories of Aeneas are?  That's how I'm reading it.

Yeah, I had the "womenfolk" line already underlined from the first time I read it.  Probably partly because it sounded funny, but reading it through this time made me wonder: both about Augustine's view of women, and also about why he is so concerned about his childhood.  What exactly is he referring to with the phrase "much that touches him so closely"?

One thing I found pretty interesting this week was Augustine's idea of innocence. The passage of interest is in XIX where he states

Is this [speaking of his childhood sins] boyhood innocence? It is not, Lord. I cry Thy mercy, O my God. Yet as we leave behind tutors and masters and nuts and balls and birds and come to deal with prefects and kings and the getting of gold and estates and slaves, these are the qualities which pass on with us, one stage of life taking the place of another as the greater punishments of the law take the place of the schoolmaster's cane. Therefore, O God our King, when you said, of such is the kingdom of heaven, it could only have been humility as symbolized by the low stature of childhood that you were commending.

Most of what he is confessing in the first book are things I think we all would have a hard time classifying as sin. They are just things we do when young and then grow out of. Augustine seems to be saying here that it is just the particular manifestation of sin that we grow out of. The core problem is still there and we just trade on type of sin for another. It's all ultimately the same.

I also found his brief speculation on where the soul is before birth interesting. He asks in VI "whether my infancy followed upon some earlier age of my life that has passed away before it". He quickly chalks this up to the mystery of God without making any definite statements about it. It's still an interesting question though: where was I before I was born? Or is that just a meaningless question? I suppose you can't exist without existing, but is birth the beginning of existence?

A footnote in my text mentions that Augustine entertained several different theories about the origin of the soul in his life, but never commits to a specific one.

There was also a sentence that sounded funny to my modern ears when he was talking about learning what his infancy was like.

for You have left man to learn these things about himself from others, to accept much that touches him so closely on the word of his womenfolk.

Maybe it's just the word "womenfolk" but it gave me a chuckle to read it.

We've put it off long enough, but if we want to work our way through all those glorious books before the universe grows cold we should probably start!

I have finally obtained my copy of the Confessions and am ready to begin. Since I believe that schedules are an absolute good, I (and Nick) propose that we read two books per week (~40 pages). I've set up a schedule here to help keep us on track. If we actually follow it, we should be finished with the Confessions by then end of November.

Heya... so, any luck finding a book yet Tim?  Cuz maybe it's just that classes haven't really started for me yet, but... I could really dig some Augustine about now!

Hope to blog... chat?  it up with yall on Confessions soon!  God bless.

Matt

Well my friends, we have finally passed over the threshold of university life and entered into the nebulous realm of adulthood. As far as I'm concerned, we're ready to begin our learning anew, unfettered by the constraints of class and graduation requirements. Thus, I am happy to declare that, starting today, Dandelion Sublime is officially back in commission.

Although our reading list had originally begun with Homer, the Bible, and other Ancient texts, we have decided to amend our original contract so that we might start with German Idealist thought. And with whom would it be better to start than Immanuel Kant?

That Kant is the obvious starting point I think is certain (don't worry, I went to wikipedia, and it checks out), but perhaps some may wonder why we have chosen Idealism in the first place. Well I will give three reasons, and if they are not to your satisfaction, then fie upon you.

1) It is of our opinion that German Idealism has had a deep influence on our culture, particularly in academic circles. The ideas of Lessing, Kant, Hegel, Marx, and Schleiermacher, to name a few, have had an immense impact on modern epistemology, as well as theology and political theory. I realize it's not fair to categorize so many disparate thinkers under the general heading of "German Idealism," but there is something to be said about the fact that all of these thinkers came out of more or less the same historical context, namely 19th century Germany, and their thought directly influenced one another. E.g. Marx may have taken his thought in a different direction than Hegel and Kant, but he still is a child of their movement.

Furthermore, the modern American research university, when it first came into being in the late 19th century, borrowed directly from the German models of the 19th century. Therefore, America's first professional historians, classicists, and philosophers owed a great deal to 19th century German thought as well. Finally, some of the United States' greatest theologians, like Paul Tillich, were deeply indebted to the thought of G. F. Hegel and other German thinkers.

2) In the ethereal world of contemplative philosophers, people like Kant seem to be cracked out on some of the most potent forms of logical syllogism. Hume was gutsy enough question everything, but that is nothing compared to what Kant's trying to do. Most reasonable people of the 18th century who read Hume for the first time did the sensible thing, and used it for kindling to start their fires in the winter. Why accept the ravings of a lunatic skeptic? Instead Kant took the insidiously inflammatory suggestions of Hume as his first principles, and then tried to construct a rational system from it.

3) Finally, I must admit I am a recovering idealist myself. And I wasn't a half-aced, moderate idealist like Kant. I was a full-on, crystal-pure, unadulterated, mind freak a la Bishop Berkeley. So when I read Kant, it's kind of like going through detox. I'm trying to wean myself off of the drug that is idealism. I desperately need to believe that there is something objectively true outside of my own mind, but sometimes I'm rarely convinced.

So, without ado let's begin Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. It may be tough, but it will be worth it. I promise.

I will send out a reading assignment on my next post, but at the moment I must away to a BBQ engagement.

A plus mes amis,

Nick

Greetings Gentle Readers,

We are soon to enter upon a bold venture with the express desire to do what 18 Yale students have ever done before (every year in fact). We shall, namely, read the great works of Western Thought ranging from the noble Ancient Greeks even to the skeptical and melancholic theorists of our own day. Our scope shall begin with Plato and end with Eliot. We may even deign to presume an edge on our Yale exemplars, for we shall add the great works of Western Spirituality and Western Science to our list as well as the traditional Literature, History, and Philosophy.

We recognize the impossibility of our mission, yet we will not falter and we do not dissemble when we say truly that we shall read as many books as our daunting regimen expects of us in these fair years before us. As we prepare to graduate from college, we justly echo the inimitable CS Lewis when we declare that we have All Our Road Before Us. Who knows what mystifying, confounding, exhilarating, and illuminating journeys we have ahead. We do know that a cloud of brilliant witnesses to the human condition have come before us and can give us solace and inspiration as we journey on.

Here is the book list thus far:

Literature

Homer, Iliad, Robert Fagles, trans. (Penguin)                            
Homer, Odyssey, Robert Fagles, trans. (Penguin)
Aeschylus, Oresteia, Richmond Lattimore, trans. (University of Chicago)
Sophocles, Oedipus the King, David Grene, trans. (University of Chicago)
Virgil, Aeneid, Allen Mandelbaum, trans. (University of California)
Ovid, Metamorphoses, A.D. Melville, trans. (Oxford)
New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha, RSV (Oxford)
Dante, Divine Comedy, 3 vols., Allen Mandelbaum, trans.
Medieval Lyric, Petrarch, Rime Sparse, Durling, trans. (xerox)
Cervantes, Don Quixote, Grossman, trans. (HarperCollins)
Shakespeare, Sonnets (Arden)
Shakespeare, King Lear (Arden)
Milton, Paradise Lost (Norton)
Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience (Oxford)
Wordsworth, Selected Poems and Prefaces, ed., Stillinger (Riverside)
Goethe, Faust, Part One, David Luke, trans. (Oxford)
Flaubert, Madame Bovary, Geoffrey Wall, trans. (Penguin)
Tolstoy, War and Peace
Eliot, The Waste Land (Penguin)

Philosophy

Plato, Plato: Complete Works, ed. John Cooper (Hackett, 1997)
Aristotle, New Aristotle Reader, ed. Ackrill (Princeton University Press).
Sextus Empiricus, Outlines of Skepticism, trans.
Annas and Barnes (Cambridge Univ. Press)
Duns Scotus: On the Will and Morality, ed. Allan Wolter (Catholic Univ. of America Press)(course packet)
Epictetus Handbook, trans. Nicholas White (Hackett) and handout from Discourse
Augustine, On Free Choice of the Will (Hackett)
Descartes, Meditations on First Philosophy, Cottingham, ed. (Cambridge)
Leibniz, Philosophical Essays, ed. Garber and Ariew (Hackett)
Berkeley, Three Dialogues Between Hylas and Philonous, ed. Dancy (Oxford)
Hume, Enquiries Concerning Human Understanding and Concerning the Principles of Morals, Selby-Bigge and
    Nidditch, eds. (Clarendon Press, 3rd Edition)
Hume, A Treatise of Human Nature, eds. P.H. Nidditch and L.A. Selby-Bigge (Clarendon, 2nd. ed)
Kant, Critique of Pure Reason, Guyer and Wood, trans. (Cambridge)
Kant, Grounding for the Metaphysics of Morals, Ellington, trans. (Hackett)
Mill, Utilitarianism, ed. Sher (Hackett)
Kierkegaard, Fear and Trembling, Lowrie, trans. (Everyman's Library)
Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals, Ansell-Pearson, ed. (Cambridge)
Wittgenstein, On Certainty, ed. Anscombe (Perennial)

History and Politics

Herodotus, The History, trans. David Grene (Chicago, 1987)
Thucydides, The Landmark Thucydides: A Comprehensive Guide to the Peloponnesian War, trans. Robert B. Strassler
     (Simon & Schuster, 1996)
Plato, Plato: Complete Works, John Cooper, ed. (Hackett)
Aristotle, The Politics and the Constitution of Athens, ed. Steven Everson (Cambridge, 1996)
Livy, The Rise of Rome, trans. T.J. Luce (Oxford, 1999)
Polybius, The Rise of the Roman Empire, trans. Ian Scott Kilvert (Penguin, 1980)
Tacitus, The Annals of Imperial Rome, trans. Michael Grant (Penguin, 1956)
Augustine, City of God, Random House/Modern Library edition #0679783199
Dante, Monarchy, ed. Prue Shaw (Cambridge, 1996)
Machiavelli, The Prince, ed. H.C. Mansfield (Chicago 1998)
Hobbes, Leviathan, ed. E. Curley (Hackett, 1994)
Locke, Second Treatise of Government, ed. C.B. MacPherson (Hackett, 1980)
Hume, Essays, Moral, Political, and Literary, ed. E.F. Miller (Liberty Fund, 1987)
Rousseau, 'The Discourses' and Other Early Political Writings, ed. V. Gourevitch (Cambridge, 1997)
Rousseau, The Social Contract and Other Later Political Writings, ed. V. Gourevitch (Cambridge, 1997)
Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France, ed. C.C. O'Brien (Penguin, 1982)
Hamilton, Madison, Jay, The Federalist Papers, with Letters of "Brutus", ed. T. Ball (Cambridge, 2003)
de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, ed. H. Mansfield and D. Winthrop (Chicago, 2002)
Marx, Selected Writings , ed. L. Simon (Hackett, 1994)
Nietzsche, Untimely Meditations, 2nd Edition, trans. R.J. Hollingdale, ed. D. Breazeale. (Cambridge 1997)
Arendt, Origins of Totalitarianism (Harcourt, 1973)
Emerson, "Self Reliance"

Here is the tentative list of our supplemental readings. Please feel free to comment, edit, revise, etc.

Science

Epicurus
Euclid
Pythagoras
Aristotle
Ptolemy, The Almagest
Lucretius, On the Nature of Things
Robert Grosseteste
Jean Buridan
Copernicus
Galileo
Kepler
Gassendi
Boyle
Newton
Lavoisier
Franklin
Priestley
Paley
Darwin
Mach
Freud
Einstein
Popper
Bohr
Kuhn

Spirituality

New Testament
Gnostic Gospels
Tertullian
Irenaeus
Origen
Eusebius of Caesarea
Athanasius
The Desert Fathers
Gregory of Nyssa
Gregory of Nazianzus
John Chrysostum
Augustine
Ambrose
Jerome
Boethius
Anselm
Bernard of Clairvaux
Bonaventure
Thomas Aquinas
William of Ockham
Erasmus
Martin Luther
John Calvin
Thomas More
Ignatius Loyola
Ludwig Feuerbach
Schweitzer
Barth
Brunner
Bultmann
Bonhoeffer
Niebuhr
Tillich
Hought